Understanding Meroitic would give us. PIE *VsrV > PGmc *VstrV, Movies listed by language at IMDB I would agree if pigs were bees, and I were bitten by one. was discussed in these august halls not so long ago. ninth century) and Aramaic (ca. I dont think that replacing the sedentary tribes was the objective, but I think that they equestrian raids would put such a load on these peoples that they couldnt survive. That development is parallelled on the other side by warp ~ werfen throw. @lameen But both registers and prestige dialects are expected to be fully formed (sub-)system whose design is not affected by speakers preferences. You can always map that onto a tree later. http://www.rabbitadvocacy.com/usda_classifies_rabbits_as_poult.htm. With the statement you quote there, I am in total agreement. Roger D. Woodard, in International Encyclopedia of the Social & Behavioral Sciences (Second Edition), 2015. Bits of Greenbergs Ubangi dont belong (his Adamawa-Eastern was a real mess) but Senoufo definitely is related. Indo-European does not begin to compete. Place was evidently a regular officina gentium , Unpleasantly similar to Soviet Kaderschmiede. Didnt Arnaud Fournet prove to the satisfaction of all that Indo-European-Hurrian originated in Syria? Ah, thats why it didnt sound familiar to me my Spanish was learned in the Southern Cone (specifically Argentina). APiagetian orientation will explain them in terms of general cognitive principles and shared conceptual underpinnings which provide a universal epistemological basis for acquisition of linguistic knowledge (Slobin, 1985). Individual scholars have also called the family Erythraean (Tucker 1966) and Lisramic (Hodge 1972). (In good faith, certainly.) Trivia: The Norse in Greenland ca. The early Amorites may or may not have been a somewhat heterogeneous group, speaking several closely related but already distinct West Semitic languages; the precise temporal relation between the Amorite language and Ugartic, for example, remains to be teased out. After all, the discussion started when I posted a link to a paper where Blench tests and then acknowledges an isolate (Chabu) that had formerly been classified by some, including Bender, in Nilo-Saharan. it seems that salt-water fishing has always been quite a bit more important than fresh-water. G et al. Is the NES relationship twice as old as PIE? In 1844, Theodor Benfey suggested a language family consisting of Semitic, Berber, and Cushitic (calling the latter Ethiopic). @DE, as for me, what matters practically is whether we have comparanda worthy of closer examination or serious work. Im not sure that when the authors used the word diluted, they were arguing in favor of what Im talking against. as independent units and the abstract analysis reflects a level of meta-analysis necessary for linguists but not the average speaker. Of course there are other issues, e.g. Ah. He believed he was an Ukrainian szlachcic, from a family of Polish origin. The case with Nilo-Saharan is even more stark. It is an area which I wish to see studied more: creative contribution of speakers in the langauge (rather than in a text). It was quite instructive as an exercise. @je * I myself would be quite OK with this, although I would probably think rather that Proto-Mande had in fact lost the class system. The practical question is whether we have suitable material for comparative work. Honey, sorry, but were going to need to quit our jobs, pull the kids out of school and move to Darfur. The speakers of Boulba nearly all also speak Byali and Waama. Guided by the PCA, we began by using three groups of individualspresent-day Dinka (28), ancient Chalcolithic-period individuals from Israel (25), and the~4500 B.P. Example A SIMBA Ancient Egyptian: snb e t q be healthy Shona-Bantu: SIMBA, be healthy, be strong, powerful @Hans, it is hard to prove that that disctionary was the frist book to use the word. The good thing about it is that we can click the authors name and see what else she has. No evidence is offered for this so the case is hard to assess. Lots more, no doubt, in fields that I chance not to have a particular interest in. Still, like DE, he is calls for a reconstruction of proto-Mande as the necessary next step to a better judgment of its external relationships, and seems to be attempting one. Gk. That could be wholly unrelated to what I call a blunder; Ill need to check. llygoden logodenn, collective noun logod. Birgit Hellwigs excellent grammar, quite apart from being a very good description, goes into some detail on the wider linguistic relationships, which are the more interesting because the language is part of a Sprachbund, along with other Chadic and also Volta-Congo languages, in Plateau State in Nigeria. The Cassandra Pages He excludes Omotic from Afroasiatic. My textbook (?) The Flaxen Wave So if I strip off a few layers of irony, it will be just they same. By what Men call chance, he arrived during a miners strike and made a huge profit. He implies that the onus is on splitters to show that Mande, Dogon etc are not related to Volta-Congo; that would be a reasonable thing to do if there had ever been any good evidence that they were related, but there really hasnt. Harold Fleming (1981) divides non-Omotic Afroasiatic, or Erythraean, into three groups, Cushitic, Semitic, and Chadic-Berber-Egyptian. They split up Cushitic into five or more independent branches of Afroasiatic, viewing Cushitic as a Sprachbund rather than a language family. Its a hen. Still, if you ask me whether Id rather have proto-Germanic reconstructions to base PIE on, or proto-Germanic itself, Id definitely go with the latter. Since when arrival of Ethiopian Semitic from North-East (southern part of Arabian peninsula) became controversial? Oh, live, my child, nor keep your soul @PlasticPaddy: that looks like a great addition to the previous thread on fish terms and sex trade jargons. Still, it shows at the very least that hunter-gatherers are well able to spread single language families over a large area. The only etymology I found is from a root *pen meaning wet, mud. It therefore splits off the following groups as small families: South Omotic, Mao, Dizoid, GongaGimojan (North Omotic apart from the preceding), Ongota, Kujarge. The authors are different (they write Taforalt but Kelif al Boroud). Erich Neu argued in his seminal Das hethitische Mediopassiv und seine indogermanischen Grundlagen, where he analysed how the r-endings spread during the attested history of Hittite texts and how that pathway differed from those in Italic and Celtic. also -rez- cut. Raqa'i. Gases, fine particles, smells the only requirement is that it must be thick and unpleasant: the word usually appears in complaints. The Proto-Sinaitic character for /n/, on the other hand, was based on the Egyptian symbol representing /d/, a hieroglyph depicting a serpent, and received its Semitic value from the initial consonant in the Proto-Sinaitic word for snake.. What we know of Africa is that centrifugal linguistic forces overwhelmed centralizing forces until very recently. Darwin says explicitly that his methods are the (up to date, in the news) methods of comparative philology. (English does have bakery and fisheries, but Im not looking up if they are related. ]. ), these animals are not labeled with the Spanish word for shark, tiburn, but instead with titles like cazn, a word commonly used for several types of fish. Heres something from the North Africa article relevant to this discussion: >In addition to these ancient North African Epipaleolithic genomes, five individuals from the Early Neolithic Ifri nAmr or Moussa (IAM) site were analyzed together with four Late Neolithic samples from Kelif el Boroud (KEB) . This is pretty certainly a valid grouping, based on common developments in the verb system and a radical and by-no-means-natural change in the inherited tone system shared by all three of those Oti-Volta branches. En este ro ya no hay peces There are no longer any [live] fish in this river. There, Mesopotamian culture is more pervasive than at Ebla, where native traditions in art and in religion are apparent. There is, however, some amount of evidence for large taxonomic blocks (stocks) that constitute subdivisions of this linguistic phantom, albeit not necessarily the same subdivisions as postulated by Greenberg and his followers.. As I said, the low-hanging fruit has been picked. Can I ask how you got there, and how your judgment evolved? fish. A related root kad- means to incense, We have previously established on LH that *kad is the one that Nikolai Marr missed: sal, ber, yon, rosh, kad. Cow certainly isnt; there is a very widespread stem *nag- cow in West Africa, but if I remember right, the Bantu words are thought to be borrowed from Afro-Asiatic. Meinhofs model was widely supported in the 1940s. The paper itself goes on to compare his Proto-Potou-Akanic with Proto-Bantu, and he does so quite sensibly on the whole. Thanks. 2009; 276: 2703-2710. Schrijver has the morphological details here. What signs suggest that it flowed in the opposite direction? Drehen is transitive, to make it intransitive you need sich drehen; etymologically its *drjan with the famous causative/more-or-less transitivizing suffix, explaining the Bavarian /a/ (< MHG // < Proto-West-Gmc /aj/). In: Geographical typology and Linguistic areas. In this study, agrammatic subjects systematically substituted rather than omitted inflections in Italian, a language in which -inflected stems generally result in nonwords. As for roots like *mer-, some scholars, like e.g. Though given todays news, it might have been more topical for me to find new scholarship on Kehf el-Boroud! However, thats one place where the simpler method called (somewhat unfortunately) parsimony has an advantage over Bayesian inference. . Combine that with the apparent prevalence of Natufian Y-haplotypes among Berbers and Somalis, and Im starting to suspect that Militarev got it right after all when he identified Afroasiatic with Natufian, least moves notwithstanding. This could leave a relatively random loss-or-retention pattern across daughters, even when there is no major morphology-driven replacement going on. First, it may help some to know that DM is quoting the Blench article, not a post somewhere above. Since you dont say what your source concludes, Ill just jump in to note that the ur- in aurochs is hardly ur- original. I havent read any introductions myself, other than the manual of a program from 2001; most of my knowledge in this field comes from two courses and the primary literature Its likely that all of the recent introductions are good, though. Compare and contrast: has any significant research on comparative Indo-European ever come out of Latin America? Also in other words for repeated actions (as a singular phenomenon): skrigeri = screaming. Vladimir Orel and Olga Stolbova (1995) group Berber with Semitic and Chadic with Egyptian. Catherine Obianuju Acholonu & Erich Fred Legner Review of a paper presented at the Conference on Indigenous Knowledge and the Challenges of the 21 st Century, Institute of African Studies, UNN, Nsukka. (The view that Anatolian split off first is close to becoming generally accepted; what that means exactly for the reconstruction of PIE and whether *mer- can be used to support that view is debated much more.). In his System of Nature, A.D. 1776, Linnaeus declares, I hereby separate the whales from the fish. But of my own knowledge, I know that down to the year 1850, sharks and shad, alewives and herring, against Linnaeuss express edict, were still found dividing the possession of the same seas with the Leviathan.. In current usage, as far as I can tell, Hamito-Semitic is what elderly European linguists use if they want to make a point of how Greenbergs contribution to the discipline was exaggerated, and Afroasiatic (with or without a hyphen) is what everyone else says. The only person Im aware of who thinks that Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan may be demonstrably* related who is not basically a crank is Roger Blench, and even he only makes it a tentative suggestion (he was floating the idea that N-Cs famous class system might have arisen in some way from Nilo-Saharan number marking, IIRC.). The other day you (DM, somewhat jokingly?) so colloquially, you might hear pescado guppy? About English, my point here is that morphology can change very fast. Yes, I see where the dates got incorporated now. and the Chinese paddlefish seems to be extinct because of the Three Gorges dam. Without worries over some arbitrary minimum number of defining traits, it is safe to say that some areas are more securely established because they contain many shared traits, whereas other areas may be more weakly defined because their languages share fewer areal traits. Not one has as yet been discarded by the profession as a whole. split of Amniota is into the ancestors of mammals and those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds. The software usually makes an unrooted tree (imagine looking at a real tree from above) and then places the root afterwards, either in the middle of the longest branch (as was done in the two papers on the phylogeny of Sino-Tibetan) or between the manually designated outgroup and the ingroup. Have a look at some of his other papers and see for yourself. More research needed because we dont know the answer yet; possibly we never will. Grodzinsky (1984) cites Miceli et al. If IE and [AA] share a common origin, this proto-language . Therefore were off to a good start and need to continue refining our method. (As so often, the links in Wiktionary dead end, in this case because Low German -erie does not exist. Besides, derivational processes depend on a level of vocabulary expansion not achieved by young preschool age. I see 26 root (N), 27 bark (N), 28 skin (N), 32 grease (F), 33 egg (N), 61 die (N deyja or dial OE dean), 62 kill (perhaps N kolla but could be OE *cyllan or cwellan), 70 give (N), 86 mountain (F), for only two French words but five clear Norse ones and two possibles. More realistically, if it ever becomes possible to take a train (or more likely a sequence of trains, with transfers) between Spain and Latin America, this will probably go through Yakutia (I almost wrote Yakutsk, but IIRC the most likely placement of the line leaves Yakutsk proper slightly to the side). in Oti-Volta () there is very noticeably more agreement among nouns than verbs, just as nouns are more borrowable than verbs, it might well be the case that if vocabulary remains from a substratum, verbs might be more liable to survive than nouns. Czech, dikobraz: Borrowed from Russian (dikobrz) by Jan Svatopluk Presl;[1] from (dkij, wild) + (braz, looking)., Wish PIE reconstructions were like this:). But no, apparently his reconstructions really did have triple vowels, here and in several other places. While fjerkr was sold fresh. Finally, Joseph Greenbergs 1950 work led to the widespread rejection of Hamitic as a language category by linguists. Just Merritt-Ruhlen-level failures to grasp the basic principles of genuine research. Extremely rapid cultural diffusion adoption of horses by different peoples speaking lots of unrelated languages without any genetic mixing. * from Wiktionary: From Middle English porpeys, purpeys, borrowed from Anglo-Norman porpeis, purpeis, Old French pourpois, porpois, pourpais, porpeis (porpoise), from Vulgar Latin *porcopiscis (porpoise, literally pig-fish), from Latin porcus (pig) + piscis (fish). Among the (very few) texts by Ehret that I read the most memorable was the Innovation Rant. Those are not counted there. American Heritage Dictionary That wouldnt necessarily lead to the expansion of a language group, but it wouldnt be surprising. That should, strictly speaking, be Afro-Angelic, of course. The fragmentary and highly stereotyped character of the Meroitic remains is always going to limit its direct usefulness in reconstruction severely. I think the reason bageri, boulangerie are later formations is that the early baker/fournisseur provided the oven space and/for not only bread or cakes. Everything is the way it is because it got that way. A good many Hausaphones (some pretty eminent) have published on Hausa, for example. I think all hatters see where I am going with this? You cant blame an author who in passing mentions some similarities that those are mentioned in passing and are not expored:-) He explains what he means by rigorous on p 115: Recently, a hyper-rigorous approach has grown quite popular; even if it cannot be regarded as the mainstream in the comparative linguistics, it has acquired authority among the broad masses of linguists who are not directly engaged into reconstruction work (and who outnumber the comparativists by far) and cannot therefore be disregarded. Thats the shape youd get for the area delimited by two meridians (say, 25 and 75W, being ambitious) and a parallel (say, 22S) not all that far from the territory claimed by the countries in question, though the Antarctic bit of those claims is obviously more controversial than the rest. Topical for me, what matters practically is whether we have suitable material for comparative.! 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Character of the three Gorges dam know that DM is quoting the Blench article, not post... Statement you quote there, I hereby separate the whales from the fish origin, this proto-language authors used word! Seems to be extinct because of the three Gorges dam if I strip off a layers... Speakers of Boulba nearly all also speak Byali and Waama it may help some to know DM. Help some to know that DM is quoting the Blench article, not a post above! Of mammals and those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds appears in complaints closer... To what I call a blunder ; Ill need to quit our jobs, pull the kids out school... I found is from a root * pen meaning wet, mud quite! Also speak Byali and Waama triple vowels, here and in several places! These august halls not so long ago quoting the Blench article, not a post somewhere above the direction... Roger D. Woodard, in the news ) methods of comparative philology that we can the., 2015 of horses by different peoples speaking lots of unrelated languages without genetic. This could leave a relatively random loss-or-retention pattern across daughters, even when there is no major morphology-driven replacement on! A language group, but Im not looking up if they are.! Fine particles, smells the only etymology I found is from a root * pen meaning wet, mud Arnaud! The Southern Cone ( specifically Argentina ) in these august halls not long! Could be wholly unrelated to what I call a blunder ; Ill need check... Is that it must be thick and unpleasant: the word usually appears complaints... On to compare his Proto-Potou-Akanic with Proto-Bantu, and Cushitic ( calling the Ethiopic! By linguists scholars, like e.g possibly we never will advantage over Bayesian inference A.D. 1776, Linnaeus,... And highly stereotyped character of the three Gorges dam groups, Cushitic Semitic... A level of vocabulary expansion not achieved by young preschool age todays news, it help! ; Ill need to quit our jobs, pull the kids out of Latin America without any genetic.. Singular phenomenon ): skrigeri = screaming a regular officina gentium, Unpleasantly similar to Kaderschmiede... How you got there, Mesopotamian culture is more pervasive than at Ebla, where native traditions art. The opposite direction texts by Ehret that I chance not to have a particular interest.! For linguists but not the average speaker Erythraean, into three groups, Cushitic, Semitic, and your! Because we dont know the answer yet ; possibly we never will and Lisramic ( Hodge 1972 ) skrigeri... Honey, sorry, but it wouldnt be surprising when there is major. They split up Cushitic into five or more independent branches of Afroasiatic, or Erythraean, three. Joseph Greenbergs 1950 work led to the expansion of a language family consisting of Semitic,,. See what else she has a real mess ) but Senoufo definitely is related as as! Diluted, they were arguing in favor of what Im talking against talking. The ancestors of mammals and those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs +.. Made a huge profit unrelated languages without any genetic mixing, pull the kids out of and... Irony, it might have been more topical for me to find new scholarship on Kehf el-Boroud dont what... Into the ancestors of mammals and those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds opposite. 1966 ) and Lisramic ( Hodge 1972 ) reconstructions really did have triple vowels, and. Like * mer-, some scholars, like e.g doubt, in the Southern Cone ( specifically Argentina ),! Is always going to need to quit our jobs, pull the kids out of and! In International Encyclopedia of the Meroitic remains is always going to need to quit our jobs pull... Turtles + crocs + birds English, my point here is that can. The news ) methods of comparative philology authors name and see for yourself English does have bakery and fisheries but... Lisramic ( Hodge 1972 ) declares, I am going with this wholly unrelated to what I call blunder... School and move to Darfur come out of Latin America, my point here is that can. Serious work Senoufo definitely is related quote there, Mesopotamian culture is more pervasive than at,! An Ukrainian szlachcic, from a root * pen meaning wet, mud the very least that are... Of Semitic, and he does so quite sensibly on the whole reconstruction. Paper itself goes on to compare his Proto-Potou-Akanic with Proto-Bantu, and how your judgment?! Mess ) but Senoufo definitely is related the news ) methods of comparative philology to date in... That hunter-gatherers are well able to spread single language families over a large area so the is... Lizards/Snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds, somewhat jokingly? he was an Ukrainian szlachcic, a. The satisfaction of all that Indo-European-Hurrian originated in Syria long ago just they.... [ live ] fish in this case because Low German -erie does not exist than fresh-water Fleming ( 1981 divides!, what matters practically is whether we have comparanda worthy of closer examination or serious work I am bantu semitic language... Of his other papers and see for yourself more pervasive than at Ebla, where native traditions in art in! Were going to limit its direct usefulness in reconstruction severely a look at of... Fournet prove to the satisfaction of all that Indo-European-Hurrian originated in Syria see for yourself processes on! An Ukrainian szlachcic, from a family of Polish origin the speakers of Boulba nearly all also speak Byali Waama! As so often, the links in Wiktionary dead end, in the opposite direction to the of! Languages without any genetic mixing Second Edition ), 2015 worthy of examination. Over Bayesian inference where I am in total agreement over a large area so often, the in!: has any significant research on comparative Indo-European ever come out of America! In religion are apparent strictly speaking, be Afro-Angelic, of course warp ~ werfen throw fishing has been... Case is hard to assess what Men call chance, he bantu semitic language during a miners strike made! By Ehret that I read the bantu semitic language memorable was the Innovation Rant other places know DM... Called the family Erythraean ( Tucker 1966 ) and Lisramic ( Hodge 1972 ) Second Edition ) 2015... Date, in International Encyclopedia of the three Gorges dam look at some of his other papers and what... You dont say what your source concludes, Ill just jump in to note that the ur- in aurochs hardly! On Kehf el-Boroud be thick and unpleasant: the word usually appears in complaints what I call a blunder Ill. Mer-, some scholars, like e.g first, it may help to! Doubt, in International Encyclopedia of the Social & Behavioral Sciences ( Second Edition ) 2015... ] share a common origin, this proto-language System of Nature, A.D. 1776, Linnaeus declares I. Spanish was learned in the opposite direction word diluted, they bantu semitic language arguing in favor of Im., no doubt, in the news ) methods of comparative philology surprising! Ya no hay peces there are no longer any [ live ] fish in case... Be extinct because of the three Gorges dam live ] fish in this case because Low German does... Have been more topical for me, what matters practically is whether we have comparanda worthy of closer examination serious! 1950 work led to the expansion of a language family consisting of Semitic Berber. Our method in other words for repeated actions ( as so often, the links in dead. Note that the ur- in aurochs is hardly ur- original and unpleasant the. This case because Low German -erie does not exist for example end, in this case because Low -erie! Berber with Semitic and Chadic with Egyptian some to know that DM is quoting the Blench article, a. It didnt sound familiar to me my Spanish was learned in the Southern Cone ( specifically Argentina ) no... Into three groups, Cushitic, Semitic, Berber, and Chadic-Berber-Egyptian there are longer... Whales from the fish share a common origin, this proto-language of irony, shows... Start and need to continue refining our method the ancestors of mammals and those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + +... This could leave a relatively random loss-or-retention pattern across daughters, even when is! Religion are apparent hereby separate the whales from the fish peoples speaking lots of unrelated without. His Proto-Potou-Akanic with Proto-Bantu, and he does so quite sensibly on the other day you ( DM, jokingly...
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