Therefore, as far as I can see, the description of Linda as a hippy, as was understood by those not in sympatico with any countercultural thought, is pretty accurate. Her father, Rosaire, was a construction worker and the family faced financial difficulties. He ignores the good objection and focuses on the compound objection. I remember reading it over at the now dearly departed Cat's site. One defense attorney after the next, tried unsuccessfully to punch holes through her testimony. Grim, Probably move the goal posts was not the best turn of a phrase. The DA's office had to get old charges from Inyo refiled to keep Charlie inside. Linda Darlene Drouin was born on 21 June 1949, in Biddeford, Maine, US as the eldest child of Rosaire Drouin and Joyce Taylor. In case anyone is wondering, any reports of Manson's death are at this point to be considered exaggerated. It was at night and I had no knowledge of what was happening until we actually got there." Before Tate-LaBianca She attended Milford High School in Milford, New Hampshire in 1964 and 1965. fn. But I do think that atmosphere at the time contributed to the events. And if so, in what context ? There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes. I kept wondering what the relevance was. St Circumstance saidBut not Linda. No big deal. Kasabian saw it as an opportunity to flee the ranch (without Tanya). Only the main core of 20 to 30 stayed consistently. But neither emerged in a vacuum. Pat never admitted to it though it was in her thought process, just not as the specific reason for being at Cielo. There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look good. Later in 2009, Cineflix Production Company tracked her down and in their docu-drama titled Manson she elaborated on what happened during her four week time with the Manson family. So I'm not trying to prove Kasabian is actually lying. Those people would of gone unpunished, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watson. ?This is a girl who started breaking laws at a very young age. Linda Darlene Kasabian was born on June 21, 1949. When I put this thing together while the high school stuff was fun, for me the heart of the matter was the 'Odyssey' article. If she just forgot it at home, I suspect it would be mentioned as having "No license" or "without".Oh and $150,000 sold confession, book deal and promise of immunity from the gas chamber is a sell out move. Bugliosi not only had a story to prove it, but a rather dramatic one in which she prevented it.Secondly, a trip to see the Straight Satans directly after leaving LaBianca could have destroyed the entire Helter Skelter cover story. I've long found it significant that not one of the incarcerated has ever come out in the 45+ years and brought out any details of her nefarious involvement that we are not already aware of. The trial ? At the time they went over and killed those people because they believed it was for H/S. Early Life. A British rock band is named after her too. Dreath saidyou have a tendency to 'move the goal posts' which makes responding to you rather difficultIf by that you mean that I seem to jump around on the subjects and quotes I'll comment on, that's true. Grim, I have to disagree with you a bit. Question: Did Deemers know what he was talking about? It's kind of passed into folklore that that is the reason but no reason has ever been actually given. As we all know Linda Kasabian was born Linda Darlene Drouin on June 21, 1949. // -->, Manson Blog Tour 2020! The question is why would Atkins leave Sharon, alive and alone, in the house to take this little stroll? He is expressing his opinion just like RH, me, you, Saint, etc. But what happened before and after that. That is exactly what Leslie Van Houton was charged and CONVICTED for.One intelligent Prosecutor, One competent Defense Attorney, One Judicially savy Judge and WHO really cares what a bunch of "moon rocks" THINK - it was a "robbery. That's 3 times in a week. The couple divorced and she married again to Robert Kasabian. More weight does not necessarily make it right or definitive.That said, quoting various bods is more for the interest of seeing exactly what they did say about certain of the incidents/matters we're all discussing and sometimes providing illumination.If Watson is attacking Voytek..And Krenwinkel is chasing AbigailAnd then Sadie came running out of the house, Who was watching Sharon Tate?No one. It's been done about Tex, Larry Jones & Bill Vance in regards to Shorty. Back then nashua was a small town in nh.Also i personally talked to someone who picked her up hitchiking in nh the 70s.He said she was pregnant must of been her second child. Linda Kasabian, the one member of the Manson Family who escaped jail, now lives a quiet life in in Tacoma, Washington. Your Resource for the Tate-LaBianca (TLB) MurdersYesterday :: Today :: Tomorrow :: Where No Sense Makes Sense. It also partly explains why she never went to LE {not that that was uppermost in her considerations !}. She down plays her Boston arrest by saying she was present where narcotics were present (technically correct) but wouldn't it have been fun to have a few more details for the jury: a fed/state narcotics raid involving 20k worth of LSD? With a father like Dean who was hitting on girls his teenage daughter hung out with, and did drugs with his own underage kid, or Diane Lake whose parents live a similar lifestyle and literally give her their permission to run around with any group of older people she wants- I do feel sympathy. [Strike 3! You can correct me on that one. Farflung saidI'm kinda thinkn' there were plenty of precursors, gleefully ignored, or dismissedI think you're right. How many of us became murderers or aided and abetted murder? Low level of intelligence: thinking a socialist was going to turn the United States into an idealist utopia where college was free, black people got reparations and Marijuana grew wild for all to partake. I think it's just Pat being nervous and trying to show that they were meant to kill everyone in the house. Sandy Good said that on a talk show she was on with George and Patti and I think Bugs might have been there too.Thanks though. No screaming for it to stop, etcThat would possibly be because at the time Kasabian asked for it to be stopped, Pat was inside struggling with Folger or chasing her through Tate's bedroom out to the pool. She got lucky Atkins folded, leaving her the only game in town and she skatedAs human beings, we have a most wonderful ability to react and make life changing moves/decisions at the drop of a hat.However, Bugliosi did say that Linda wanted to testify for the prosecution even when they still had Atkins but he got the feeling that Fleischman wanted some kind of deal. By 1980 50% of marriages had/were ending in divorce. Manson Blog Locates and Interviews Son of Clyda Dulaney! She was the chief witness at the prosecution of Manson and his followers for the Tate LaBianca murders. Granted, not everyone becomes a murderer because of a rough passage in a part of one's life, but to be honest, that's no argument, because some do.But this isn't an appeal to feel sorry for anyone, just an observation that life contains nuances that are neither easy to explain nor simple to dismiss. The couple had a daughter named Tanya who was born in 1968. The family often had financial difficulties because of her father's low income. Pat, in Guinn's book, presents herself as not wanting the murders to happen, going so far as to say that the following night at Waverley, before anthing happened with Rosemary, she prayed to God, asking him to make the murders stop and since she went ahead and exercised her own free will in participating in carnage and mutilation and God didn't strike her down and stop her, Leslie or Tex, she's not believed in God since that night.And she has a problem with Linda presenting herself as not being a willing participant.As a side issue, if Linda hadn't been at the car when they arrived at it after Cielo's action, would they have just driven off and left her ? Police investigation ? Not even in her Grand Jury testimony did Atkins say anything. She said Manson supposedly announced it was "time" (seemingly out of the blue) for Helter Skelter. You said Krenwinkle said it. Bitteford, Maine, USA. However, if there's one thing I've picked up from Helter Skeptics that I find really valuable, it's to approach this case from a number of different angles, especially angles that are not the standard ones we've been given. It means nothing more. Not because I'm being argumentative {after all, I am the current holder of the Consensusinidem award of the most pedantic know it all on the TLB blogs } but because I'm curious.Her background should have had a greater impact Well, during the 11 days she was grilled by the defence, we learn a lot of stuff about Linda Kasabian. You leave it to someone else to decide if someone is lying: judge or jury. The general consensus seems to have been that it all happened very quickly.But what do I know ! That, of course, rather obviously is directed at Charles Manson. In his testimony Clem part corroborated Linda's account and Susan part did to both Richard Caballero and the Grand jury and then later when she was writing her books.and yet, when one looks at where that apartment was, it seems like another kill two birds with one stone job. Because the media and Bernie told me so. If one of the ones that you obviously wanted {the "reasonable" ones} had been accepted as the one, exactly the same thing could be said.How perfect did the stars align for the prosecutor that there was one angel among the groupAt this point, I always like to say that being an angel is not a guaranteed beautiful thing.Satan's an angel !The big question: How do WE know she wouldn't kill? But I rereading my post above I do feel regret. Dreath saidIf you really want my opinion- to me it confirms she had no intention of testifyingAnd yet, she did testify.I agree with you to an extent. She is currently sixty nine years old. But then I would likely have to put her on the stand and that would not go well. var part3 = "Matt at Mansonblog dot com"; Combat deaths were over represented by those white troops from the southern states. It certainly wasn't even a consideration when she gives her own point of view on why she recanted.All 5 Tate/LaBianca killers, when apart from Charlie told others he'd orchestrated the murders. That is cover something up, replace it with something dramatic to help my caseI guess there's absolutely no possibility whatsoever that her story was true.Why would any lawyer not want to help their case ?Bug said Linda wasn't involved in any trouble prior to being at Spahn, yet he forgets she did admit to dealing drugs Did he actually say that ? At the age of 16, Drouin dropped out of high school and got married, and soon after, divorced. Do I mean the jury should disregard it? I care what holes there are in her testimony and where those holes actually lead. Manson Blog Reveals Bobby Beausoleil's "Art" Focuses on Child Domestic Discipline! Far more than the others that actually went to jail, fingers can be pointed at Linda about how not to conduct one's life. Even though she was present at both the Tate and LaBianca murders, because she was the key witness in District Attorney Vincent Bugliosi's prosecution of Charles Manson and his followers for the 1969 killings, Kasabian received immunity. Linda, who was found, possessing methamphetamine, avoided a jail sentence by attending drug-counseling classes. ITS REALLY TOO BAD!! Did both sides not do that quite a lot though ? George Stimson reckons it was because she owed him, after Charlie had protected her from her husband and Charles Melton when they came to get their $5000 back. That mid 50s to mid 60s period may have been one of the first times that families began finding out that there was more to parenting than provision and discipline.Diane Lake is the one I really feel for, being 13 at the time her parents started roaming the universe and pushed her into the vortex. In 1996, along with her daughter, she was arrested for drugs and gun possession. But the day after the Tate murders, she went to deliver a message to Beausolei and was turned away because she didn't have proper ID. But not every brain is wired the same - our neurotransmitters are just ridiculously different in everyone. I am still in contact as recently as 12/16. https://web.archive.org/web/20021014185811/http://www.mansonmurders.com/kasabianreport.htmlhttps://web.archive.org/web/20001003172732/http://www.mansonmurders.com/kasabian.htmlBasically lovely Little Tonya ended up in State Prison for drugs. Obama just pardoned a woman who was serving "life" in Federal prison for helping a friend to launder some "drug" money.So what can possess an otherwise normal human being to gamble with THEIR entire life on this earth, which is likely to be the REAL heaven. Or did she have her license because she did not turn it in when it was suspended and it wasn't valid? Even to this day, what makes HS so strong is that it kept on coming up. Over here in England, working as a care assistant in a home for the elderly is not really seen as particularly caring work much of the time, it's often seen as a job anyone can do that wants to earn definite {low} money and the overwhelming majority of care workers I've known have not been native to these shores. We do not know why any of them were picked. She droved straight to New Mexico, where her husband was living with another woman. She has always maintained at hearing she knew nothing about that being a motive and says she thought it was a robbery.Nice jab at Trump supporters too. Do you hate everyone who was of draft age during the Vietnam era. Eventually, Linda moved to Boston where she married a man named Robert Kasabian. ORWHUT: Very perceptive. She has been portrayed a number of times in films. It doesn't need to be personal. She appears to have had no or little choice. He said something to the effect that Charlie had a very strong case and that there was pretty much no evidence against him. I think goofy's comments about 'being at war' and 'casualties of war' are interesting. Manson Mythos saidThere is an interesting quote from Fleischmann in an issue of the Free Press prior to Kasabian becoming the star witness. Dreath saidDo I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. Grim, I love you to death and read everything you post but you have a tendency to 'move the goal posts' which makes responding to you rather difficult. Manson Mythos saidWhen one looks at this case, it's almost miraculous that Vincent Bugliosi had a scenario that answered so many important questions and that the answers all seemed to help his case greatlyIs that not what one might expect when, from a number of disparate sources, details and events match up and dovetail ? !STAY OUT OF THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST!! Manson Mythos saidVincent Bugliosi said the only reason Linda went along on those two nights, is because she was the only one out of the group with a valid driver's licenseHe never actually said that. The stuff written at Waverley gave the prosecution case legs, backbone and a gravitas it might not otherwise have had.Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter SkelterAlso important and true. She swore before a Grand Jury, that under the direction of Charlie Manson, she stabbed actress Sharon Tate to death and had participated in the murder of music teacher Gary Hinman.During her grand jury testimony, Atkins testified that there was no limit to what . Also, the defence lawyer attempted to discredit her testimony by calling her a drug addict, a psychopath, a liar and even the mastermind of all the murders that took place. [And Bugliosi leads a reluctant Kasabian to the answer he wants. The short youtube is anecdotal but a number of photos show troops of the 7th Cav in the battle of I-Drang valley. She had married a man named Robert Kasabian and given him a daughter with a second child on the way. All I am saying is that if your going to make a case for sympathy or redemption- who is a better choice? I thought this one was DebS !Your posts are generally good thought provokers. Mine is that Linda left her child with a group of people she knew were capable of murder to save her own ass. There is simply no hard and fast rule for this. Linda Kasabian; however, stuck to her testimony. Try to make an impact, as you put it previously.But it could be so that in this particular instance, that witness is telling the truth. Linda explained what had happened, and said that she couldn't have brought Tanya because it would've looked too suspicious. There are so many times when he asks Linda if she has understood the question. When Larry King asked her if at any point she asked Manson why are we doing this and why are these people being killed, she was at a total loss for words until Bugliosi spoke up and answered for her. Apprently asking why was out of line and a sin. They had a second child together, and Robert Kasabian left for South America. She was initially shocked that they'd killed people for money. It really does bear examination. So it's not as though there isn't some kind of precedent for stuff being revealed after the fact. I draw a line at the trials. I would have likely done the exact same thing. But again, I would think people on both sides of this would have issues with her. But you know, there may well be someone in this world that could say the same about any one of us. If Kasabian was what you are implying here, Nader would be dead and with Clem and Sadie as accomplices, no one would be any the wiser. Note all the white faces. But wait a minute Grim, Atkins never mentions this event to the Grand Jury, not a word. How could you skip that? PS: according to her cross examination at the Watson trial she was also arrested in Haight-Ashbury in 1967. Later, Robert Kasabian contacted Linda and invited her to meet him in Los Angeles. or is that just my imaginationrunning away with me. Manson Blog Shines Light on Sassy Bottoms! Yes, if you stop at the Grand Jury he has no case against Kasabian as it's inadmissible and/or it was all he had. Why ?Lo' and be hold, Bugliosi had a perfect scenario to answer this very important questionYou make it sound like he made it up ! It's always the Charlie supporters who make those statements and spread those stories about other motivesDuring one of her parole hearings, Pat did make a statement about "the two women in the house" which some have picked up and conflated with the "Sharon wasn't supposed to be there" red herring. She gives so much info on that murder, both the before, the during and the after. Leslie and Linda did not grow up any worse than thousands of other kids. At one point he actually criticizes one of the defence lawyers for calling a witness without having spoken to them.I thought all lawyers know what they want those that matter to hear ! I embarrass myself when I insult anyone let along groups of people. Later, in an effort to give their marriage another chance, she joined Robert Kasabian in Hippie Hangouts of Topanga Canyon, Los Angeles, California where he was friends with Charles Blackbeard Melton. You'd do it if you were a lawyer ! She later remarried and had a daughter; however, the marriage was not stable again. What does that refer to ? I don't care if it's ten seconds, ten minutes or an hour. Manson, the mastermind criminal with an "uncanny ability" to brainwash people sent a girl who was on the ranch for a only a few weeks out on a murder mission, and didn't tell her the plan apparently.because she was licensed to drive?NOW. Made me think. The key impact of both crimes is that Conspiracy to Commit Murder and Felony Murder do not require the defendant to actually kill anyone or even be present when someone is murdered to be guilty of murder. AND the Donald Trump (avoiding the Vietnam WAR) issue is the perfect subject to begin the discussion.IT should lead us directly to LBJ (a loving father to HIS children and a Natural Born KILLER to many of us). But I can't see that all of the chronology matters. That was some eye opening insight. ]MR.KANAREK: He is arguing with the witness, your Honor. 'Drunkenness' is perhaps the perfect example of a mental controversy ? While the attorneys dropped the defense on the ground's they didn't want their clients to commit suicide, Fitzgerald at least voiced the opinion it would have been suicide for Manson as well, as it would have only proven Bugliosi's case right.What is funny, is that Manson is demonized for supposedly trying to make the girls take the rap to save him. So if I appear to be defending her or anyone else that is generally presented as unsavoury, it's because I think there should be a balance to anyone spoken about.Even Charles Watson. I try not to view life in a binary way. Linda then traveled to Boston, where she married a. And there are times her testimony 'just don't make no sense'.A large part of this never saw the light of day because as Mr. Hendrickson noted there was no $$$$. The two traveled the country, enjoying the hippie lifestyle from commune to commune. Why not that? That's because sometimes, my thoughts on part of something that someone has said aren't formulated at the moment that I'm answering but other things that have been said have sparked off my train of thought or brought up an answer or a question.Other times, I'll need to do a bit of research so an answer won't be forthcoming straight away.Other times, just in general thought, I might have a sudden insight on something someone has said because I've been thinking about it; but that might be days later.I hope that's what you mean. In fact only Tex knew. I'm affected by tragedies of all kinds, even some of the self inflicted ones.Sympathy is something that just doesn't make sense to me.I can see that !But I feel it for a variety of the players in this saga. Favorite Buglioli line: Manson loved children and animals. But the people who count are the ones who did the crime. If it comes out that a witness has two convictions, one for bestiality involving a local horse and the other for sexually abusing one of their siblings, the other side will lean hard on that. Manson Mythos saidKrenwinkel never said the motive was Helter SkelterImportant and true.However to dismiss her writing of "Healter skelter" in blood at a murder scene when she'd been told to leave a sign {the night before} ~"you girls know what to write"~ is bias on a grand scale.She herself could not explain, during the penalty phase debacle, why she had written those words. I know that "the human side" is used to denote the lean towards goodness, softness, something of redeeming value. ?I don't think money or looks has anything to do with it, nor do I personally care much who anyone else has sympathy for. She stole money from her friends to impress people she knew for days. She eventually turned herself in and agreed to become the lead witness for the prosecution in exchange for her own immunity. Reading through the court transcripts, what is often presented in HS as a dramatic moment is actually quite tame. It must be time for a break. However, she purposely knocked on the wrong door due to which the mission was aborted. It's intriguing if nothing else. Of course he knew from the start the jury would question this. It should also lead us directly to Charles Manson (a loving father to HIS Family and a Natural Born KILLER to many others.Like no other time in History, WE are discovering new facts concerning just what makes the Human Brain tick and hopefully it won't be much longer until WE finally understand exactly why human beings do the "terrible" things THEY do.AND of course, that understanding will eventually lead to a sense of awareness in humans paralleled in all of history. Goddamn I am tripping back to like 1998. Let's save our sympathies only for those He deems good. But they also shine a light on the crimes themselves. Crucially, Sadie came out, spoke, watched Tex hit Wogiciech then ran back in again. Or for purposes of this blog do they show an alternative narrative to what is the official narrative. Is Linda a good or bad person? Mind you, what she told Marvin Part was nuclear ! AND isn't it about time (over 40 years) for the WHOLE truth and nothing but the TRUTH to leak out from the CRACKS in man's so-called civilization. The "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like Diane Lake and Ruth. very young, and not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their kids type of parents.But not Linda. "At what price, my friend? Two people had spread that around long before Linda herself was even arrested. Many thanks to you, Dreath. Who should we rely upon? That's the point lol. All the excuses people make for themI personally know- as we all do I am sure- quite a few people whose parents were divorced when they were very young. She was granted full immunity from prosecution in exchange for 18 days of testimony. (click for details). ?Then she walks and spends the rest of her live breaking the law and partying wit her own child who she breaks laws with.Yeah, all true. I would say roughly around midnight. After a day at the ranch, Linda returned to Topanga Canyon, retrieved her belongings, stole $5,000 from Melton, came back to Spahn's and joined the family. Like how about BILL Clinton. Dreath, pleased to make your acquaintance. If that had been the motive, there wouldn't have been any need to stab Voytek Frykowski fifty-one times, to hit him thirteen times over the head and shoot him twice. ]But her last statement in the world of saintly jurists is not 'reliable': you as the listener/ reader should stop listening/reading where indicated. I agree with your comment about multiple angles. I believe it. On August 8, 1969, Linda was selected to drive the killers to the Tate residence because she had the only valid driver's license. Dreath saidWhen you get to the heart of it, it is Bugliosi who says the motive was HS (+ megalomania+ anti-social hatred of the establishment+ lust for murderIt starts as being the other way around, HS being last on the list. The Vietnam WAR and those that "served" and those that didn't is NOW becoming a subject of contention. Welcome Dreath and thank you. The recent revelation of the close proximity of the apartment where Saladin Nader allegedly lived and the HQ of the Straight Satans is something that cannot be dismissed as pure Coincidence.When one looks at this case, it's almost miraculous that Vincent Bugliosi had a scenario that answered so many important questions and that the answers all seemed to help his case greatly. :-), "When they go low- I get high"or something like that lol. At least ONE Black man personally died in the jungles of Vietnam so HE could get a FREE Blow-Job. I think if it has any legs it makes it worse if they were stalking the house- can you say 'premeditation' or 'conspiracy'. How did Linda's teachers report on her behavior? var part1 = "matt"; MY double talk is meant to show there are, at least, two sides to every person's STORY (especially Linda's) AND I don't hate ANYONE, except maybe MYSELF. Ok- Ill be devils advocate.Where does light fusioninto anything with Linda? One either believes it or one doesn't. Of course, "robbery" also STIMULATES a capitalist society. not long after the events in question. IF I was one of the defense attorneys, I would have asked Linda and most other Prosecution witnesses:1) I'm a little confused and maybe you can help us ALL understand this Helter Skelter business a little better. He also said that what was needed was corroboration and that it didn't really matter who ended up as the star witness.It's true that he had little to no case against Leslie at that point, but Diane Lake changed that forever.
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